{"id":6624,"date":"2015-03-15T06:08:18","date_gmt":"2015-03-15T10:08:18","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.wasobamaborninkenya.com\/blog\/?p=6624"},"modified":"2015-03-16T03:17:51","modified_gmt":"2015-03-16T07:17:51","slug":"1-is-attorneyprofessor-neal-katyal-a-natural-born-citizen-were-his-indian-parents-us-citizens-2-neal-katyal-on-citizens-and-aliens-3-neal-katyal-on-case-law-judicial-sunset-4-neal-k","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.wasobamaborninkenya.com\/blog\/1-is-attorneyprofessor-neal-katyal-a-natural-born-citizen-were-his-indian-parents-us-citizens-2-neal-katyal-on-citizens-and-aliens-3-neal-katyal-on-case-law-judicial-sunset-4-neal-k\/","title":{"rendered":"Is Neal Katyal a natural born citizen? (were his Indian parents US citizens?) <b>#2<\/b>. Neal Katyal on citizens and aliens <b>#3<\/b>. Neal Katyal on case law (&#8220;judicial sunset&#8221;) <b>#4<\/b>. Neal Katyal and Paul Clement in <i>Hamdan v. Rumsfeld<\/i>, 548 U.S. 557 (2006)"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">The following lecture took place on April 10, 2008 while George W. Bush was still President and Barack Obama had not yet been elected.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">&#8220;The Principled War on Terror&#8221; Neal Katyal, Paul and Patricia Saunders Professor of National Security Law, Georgetown University Law Center [upload May 29, 2008]:<\/span><\/p>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/EX3SaJR_-f8?rel=0\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">The video is approximately one hour and twenty minutes in length. \u00a0Neal Katyal comes on at about the 18:35 minutes mark and speaks throughout the remainder of the video (minus a few minutes of music from a\u00a0quintet at the very end).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">In the video Katyal states that upon meeting his client,\u00a0Salim Ahmed Hamdan (a citizen of Yemen), for the first time (at\u00a0Guantanamo Bay detention camp), that Hamdan asked him why that he was representing him (Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, et al.)<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">50:55 minute mark: &#8220;And then I gave him this answer, and it&#8217;s the part that motivated me the most in this case and this set of issues. I said you know the reason that I&#8217;m here is that my parents came to America with $8 dollars in their pocket, which was all that they were permitted to bring out of India, they didn&#8217;t come to America because of the quality of it&#8217;s soil, or because of the sports teams, they came to America for a simple reason, they could land on it&#8217;s shores and they&#8217;d be treated fairly and their children would be treated fairly.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">&#8220;And when the president [Bush] issued this military order, which said if you&#8217;re one of them, if you&#8217;re a green card holder, as my parents were, or if you&#8217;re a foreigner, one of the 5 billion people, you get the beat up Chevy version of justice, you get sent to\u00a0Guantanamo. But if you&#8217;re and American citizen, accused of the most heinous crime imaginable, the detonation of a weapon of mass destruction, you get the gold standard, you get the American civilian trial.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">&#8220;I told him that&#8217;s why I was so offended, because we haven&#8217;t ever had us versus them justice.&#8221;<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Katyal then tells the audience:<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">&#8220;And while all of the was almost verbatim I didn&#8217;t say this but I&#8217;ll say it to you in this academic setting, as a person who teaches constitutional law, I think back to those majestic words of the 14th Amendment, Equal Protection of the Laws. Who is it guaranteed to? \u00a0Well its guaranteed to persons, all persons, that&#8217;s the text. And why does it say that?\u00a0 There are other these other parts of the 14th Amendment that talk about citizens, special rights for citizens, like social rights and the Privileges and Immunities Clause. \u00a0But representative [John Armor]\u00a0Bingham\u00a0[R-OH],\u00a0who wrote the 14th Amendment, said I need to overrule the worst line in the worst Supreme Court case in American history, the line in Dread Scott vs Sanford, which said only citizen have constitutional rights.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">&#8220;Representative Bingham said we fought a war about that idea and that&#8217;s why it reads persons. And indeed the Congress passed right away two laws that made it a federal felony to give aliens different punishments than citizens.\u00a0 And those laws are still on the books today.&#8221;<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Katyal then continues to further explain what he calls a &#8220;deep logic to insisting on equality&#8221; which he states goes all the way back\u00a0to Chief Justice [John] Marshall in the Supreme Court case\u00a0<i>McCulloch v. Maryland<\/i>, 17 U.S. 316 (1819).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Katyal\u00a0talks about not having to set\u00a0a &#8220;subsidence standard&#8221; as long as you insist on\u00a0&#8220;fair treatment&#8221; and &#8220;equal treatment.&#8221;<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">He also mentions Justice [Antonin Gregory]\u00a0Scalia in\u00a0<em>Cruzan v. Director, Missouri Department of Health<\/em>, 497 U.S. 261 (1990).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">He also mentions Justice [Robert Houghwout] Jackson [in <em>Railway Express Agency, Inc. v. New York<\/em>, 336 U.S. 106 (1949)], &#8220;The framers of our constitution knew nothing opens the door to arbitrary action so effectively as to allow officials to pick an choose a few to whom they&#8217;ll apply legislative and escape the political retribution that might be visited upon them if larger numbers were affected.&#8221;<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Katyal states that the idea is to insist on equality to &#8220;make the rules symmetric between aliens and citizens.&#8221;<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Katyal states that &#8220;By subjecting those from foreign lands to the same justice that Americans face, America projects not only benevolence but strength.&#8221;<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Katyal states that, &#8220;Carving out special\u00a0rules for them, and different rules for us, is no way for us to win respect internationally.&#8221;<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">At approximately the 1:03:55 minutes mark Katyal starts to talk about what he calls the &#8220;sunset process&#8230;applying to judicial decisions.&#8221; \u00a0He advocates &#8220;judicial sunset,&#8221;\u00a0and provides thought-provoking reasoning in support of, for the next several minutes up until about the 1:08:35 minutes mark.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Birthers, Obots and the eligibility skeptics love to cite case law. I&#8217;ve never been a big fan of case law myself and I&#8217;ve talked in the past about my position on case law with people such as, though not limited to, Charles Edward Lincoln III.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I&#8217;ve seen\u00a0<em>Minor v<\/em>. <em>Happersett<\/em>, 88 U.S. 162 (1875) and <span class=\"st\"><em>United States v<\/em>. <em>Wong Kim Ark<\/em><span style=\"color: #000000;\">, 169 U.S. 649 (1898) cited many times in eligibility issue discussions.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Katyal implies that we shouldn&#8217;t make decisions today based on what a judge(s) said a long time\u00a0ago in a different world.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I don&#8217;t want to interject myself into the\u00a0<em>Minor v<\/em>. <em>Happersett<\/em>, 88 U.S. 162 (1875) and <em>Wong Kim Ark<\/em><span style=\"color: #000000;\">, 169 U.S. 649 (1898) debates, I don&#8217;t think that I ever have, and I&#8217;m not going to start now. \u00a0Generally speaking though, I&#8217;m not a big fan of case law and I&#8217;m open to Katyal&#8217;s idea regarding the sunset judicial opinions.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">It appears that the closest resemblance (maybe?) to\u00a0a <em>judicial decision sunset<\/em> found so far (?) in a US judicial decision\/opinion was that in\u00a0<em>Grutter v<\/em>. <em>Bollinger<\/em>, 539 U.S. 306 (2003) regarding affirmative action: <em>&#8220;The Court expects that 25 years from now, the use of racial preferences will no longer be necessary to further the interest approved today.&#8221;<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Last week [Mar. 11, 2015] Neal Katyal and Paul Clement published <i>On the Meaning of \u201cNatural Born Citizen\u201d <\/i>at the<i>\u00a0<\/i>Harvard Law Review Forum. \u00a0What many readers probably don&#8217;t know is that both\u00a0Neal Katyal and Paul Clement were attorneys in\u00a0<em>Hamdan v. Rumsfeld<\/em>, 548 U.S. 557 (2006) (discussed in foregoing and in the video).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">The case was argued before the Supreme Court on March 28, 2006. Attorney Katyal argued on behalf of Hamdan. Attorney Paul Clement, the Solicitor General of the United States, argued on behalf of the US Government.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Hamdan (and Katyal) won the case.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I think we can thank George W. Bush for Katyal&#8217;s position on natural born citizen.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I agree with much (almost all of it) of what Katyal says in his lecture (in the video). However, I don&#8217;t think that his positions (aside from perhaps disregarding case law) are applicable to the natural born citizen clause.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I recommend watching the entire hour and twenty-two minute lecture.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">In closing I want add that I couldn&#8217;t find much regarding\u00a0Katyal&#8217;s parents other than the following at KuwaitiFreedom.org:<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.kuwaitifreedom.org\/media\/editorial\/How_an_Overachieving_Law_Professor_Toppled_the_President_Terror_Tribunals.php\" target=\"_blank\"><strong><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">How an Overachieving Law Professor Toppled the President&#8217;s Terror Tribunals<\/span><\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><em><strong>Katyal: I Never Wanted to Sue the President<\/strong> <\/em><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">T.R. Goldman<br \/>\n<span style=\"color: #000000;\">Legal Times<br \/>\n<span style=\"color: #000000;\">July 31, 2006<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><em>Katyal&#8217;s parents emigrated separately from India&#8217;s Punjab region in the early 1960s, and while Katyal rarely wears his Indian roots on his sleeve, he does not consciously cover them up, either. His parents did not know each other before they returned to India in 1968 for an arranged marriage. Katyal, following Hindu tradition, arrived at his own wedding in New York state on a horse.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Neal Katyal was born on March 12, 1970 in Chicago, Illinois. \u00a0Were his parents, by that time, US citizens?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">If they weren&#8217;t, is\u00a0Neal Katyal a natural born citizen?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Please exercise your free speech in the comments section below. There are no stipulations of political correctness on this blog. Speak your mind, give us your thoughts, both objective and subjective. Share your ideas, hunches, inklings or your expertise. Please provide recommendation and corrections if you spot errors in fact within the blog report. Lastly, remember that posting a comment is much like casting a vote, so please do so.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The following lecture took place on April 10, 2008 while George W. Bush was still President and Barack Obama had not yet been elected. &#8220;The Principled War on Terror&#8221; Neal Katyal, Paul and Patricia Saunders Professor of National Security Law, &hellip; <a href=\"https:\/\/www.wasobamaborninkenya.com\/blog\/1-is-attorneyprofessor-neal-katyal-a-natural-born-citizen-were-his-indian-parents-us-citizens-2-neal-katyal-on-citizens-and-aliens-3-neal-katyal-on-case-law-judicial-sunset-4-neal-k\/\">Continue reading <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":"","_links_to":"","_links_to_target":""},"categories":[4,4021,37,5,988],"tags":[4018,4027,4026,4031,4032,4039,4034,4035,4036,4029,4020,4023,4030,4022,4046,4050,4051,4053,4054,4044,4047,4045,4040,4041,4052,4042,4048,4049,4028,4043,4038,4339,851,1212,4005,4024,4025,4037,4019],"class_list":["post-6624","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-barrack-obama-eligibility","category-judicial-sunset","category-obama-birth-certificate","category-obama-news","category-obama-social-security-number-ssn","tag-the-principled-war-on-terror-neal-katyal-paul-and-patricia-saunders-professor-of-national-security-law-georgetown-university-law-center","tag-548-u-s-557-2006","tag-hamdan-v-rumsfeld","tag-havard-law-review-neal-katyal","tag-havard-law-review-neal-katyal-natural-born-citizen","tag-havard-law-review-ted-cruz-natural-born-citizen","tag-havard-law-reviw-paul-clement","tag-havard-law-reviw-paul-clement-natural-born-citizen","tag-havard-law-reviw-paul-clement-tez-cruz","tag-is-neal-katyal-a-natural-born-citizen","tag-judicial-decision-sunset","tag-judicial-sunset","tag-katal-natural-born-citizen","tag-neal-katyal","tag-neal-katyal-birth-certificate","tag-neal-katyal-birth-certificate-hawaii","tag-neal-katyal-birth-certificate-ted-cruzneal-katyal-birth-certificate-cruzneal-katyal-birth-certificate-canada","tag-neal-katyal-born-at-a-hospital-in-canada","tag-neal-katyal-born-at-a-hospital-in-canada-cruz","tag-neal-katyal-citizen","tag-neal-katyal-citizen-kenya","tag-neal-katyal-citizen-obama","tag-neal-katyal-green-card","tag-neal-katyal-green-card-parents","tag-neal-katyal-hospital-in-canada","tag-neal-katyal-judicial-sunset","tag-neal-katyal-kenya","tag-neal-katyal-kenya-obama","tag-neal-katyal-natural-born-citizen","tag-neal-katyal-obama-cia","tag-neal-katyal-obama-natural-born-citizen","tag-obama-birth-certificate","tag-obama-born-in-kenya","tag-obama-kenya","tag-obama-natural-born-citizen","tag-paul-clement","tag-paul-clement-natural-born-citizen","tag-paul-clement-ted-cruz","tag-sunset-process-applying-to-judicial-decisions"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.wasobamaborninkenya.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6624","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.wasobamaborninkenya.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.wasobamaborninkenya.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.wasobamaborninkenya.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.wasobamaborninkenya.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=6624"}],"version-history":[{"count":30,"href":"https:\/\/www.wasobamaborninkenya.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6624\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":6657,"href":"https:\/\/www.wasobamaborninkenya.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6624\/revisions\/6657"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.wasobamaborninkenya.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6624"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.wasobamaborninkenya.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=6624"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.wasobamaborninkenya.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=6624"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}