The “Covert Group” – 11.21.2011 Detention Order.

Pictured below are InspectorSmith’s (Lucas Daniel Smith’s) two scrupulous and ardent research assistants.

The below embedded Detention Order was issued by the United States District Court, Northern District of Georgia, Gainesville Division on November 21, 2011.

The 28 page filing contains relatively limited, and by no means exhaustive, background or history and characteristics data regarding Frederick W. Thomas, Emory Dan Roberts, Samuel J. Crump and Ray H. Adams.   However, it is a notably interesting read and I recommend that you read each every word on all 28 pages.

We learn that after Thomas was honorably discharged from the US Navy in 1989 he was employed in a number of jobs with military contractors which required “top secret clearance”.   We also learn that the USA alleges that a search of his residence following his arrest revealed that Mr. Thomas had acquired 52 weapons, including assault rifles, pistols with extended magazines and shot guns, among other firearms, as well as 30,000 rounds of ammunition, some of which was subsonic, meaning that it makes little noise when fired.  We learn that if convicted in federal court he, Thomas, faces an enhanced sentence because his offenses involve domestic terrorism.

We learn that Roberts is a Vietnam veteran.  During his service in Vietnam he received wounds that left him with hearing loss and residual pain in his arms, legs and feet.  We learn that if convicted in federal court he, Roberts, faces an enhanced sentence because his offenses involve domestic terrorism.

We learn that Crump worked as an electrical contractor for the CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) for ‘some period of time’.   Crump also has a criminal history which includes burglary and liquor manufacturing convictions from more than 35 years ago.   We also learn that the USA believes and contents that Crump’s work (as an electrical contractor) at the CDC may have given him access to information useful to the production of, and safe handling of, biological weapons.  We learn that if convicted in federal court he, Crump, faces a life sentence in prison.

 We learn that Adams lives alone on 17 acres of land.   He has a 22- year old daughter who is about to graduate from college and plans to enter the criminal justice field.   He worked for the U.S. Department of Agriculture as a biological technician for plant science from 1981 to 2006, when he retired after neck surgery.   We also learn that the USA believes and contents that Adam’s past work for the US Department of Agriculture may have provided him with know-how and access to useful information to the production of, and safe handling of, biological weapons.   We learn that if convicted in federal court he, Adams, faces a life sentence in prison.

Lastly we learn that all of four of the defendants suffer from a plethora of physical health problems.

11.21.2011. Detention Order. “Covert Group” (defendants: Thomas, Crump, Roberts, and Adams). 2:11-CR-44. U…

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About Lucas Daniel Smith

“The counts of the indictment are luxury, bad manners, contempt for authority, disrespect to elders, and a love for chatter in place of exercise…Children began to be the tyrants, not the slaves, of their households. They no longer rose from their seats when an elder entered the room; they contradicted their parents, chattered before company, gobbled up the dainties at table, and committed various offences against Hellenic tastes, such as crossing their legs. They tyrannised over the paidagogoi and schoolmasters.” – Kenneth John Freeman (from his Cambridge dissertation published in 1907)

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8 Responses to The “Covert Group” – 11.21.2011 Detention Order.

  1. Bruce says:

    In reading over the ’11/21/2011 Detention Order’ download, I was a bit surprised by the general level of ‘reasonable normalness’ that seems apparent for all four defendants, as indicated by their backgrounds. How can some of their rather bizarre, surreptitiously recorded statements be reconciled with these reasonably normal backgrounds?

    I wonder if some or all of these four defendants could have developed a form of mental illness commonly known as ‘DEMENTIA’ in recent years.

    The following are snips taken from Chapter 2, page 14 (linked below) of the book, “Dementia: From Advanced Disease to Bereavement”, by Victor Price, Adrian Treloar & Sharon Scott.

    Dementia is a progressive and generally irreversible condition which is characterized by: Impairment of memory and at least one other global cognitive function (such as comprehension, learning, language, learnt behaviour,etc.) with an associated: decline in overall functioning, … change in personality (such as coarsening of social behaviour, loosening of emotional control or lack of motivation). … in a setting of clear consciousness.”

    “The risk of dementia (includes associations with): Increasing age (the prevalence doubles every 5 years after the age of 65 years). … Heavy alcohol intake throughout life. … Head trauma (any trauma causing loss of consciousness) … Poor education – people with higher levels of education function better for the same level of pathological change…. Vascular risk factors and heart disease (e.g. hypertension, obesity, high blood cholesterol levels, diabetes) … Surgery (especially following heart surgery and fractures.”

    For the age range 65 – 69, the NORMAL prevalence rate for dementia is 1.4%. For the 70 – 74 age range, the NORMAL prevalence rate is 2.8%.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=PEGIp-wulEcC&pg=PA14&dq=dementia+age+range&hl=en&ei=3uLUTqfDIIK4twfSlpmfAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CEsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=dementia%20age%20range&f=false

    The below linked article gives us a view of the type of very serious personality changes can be brought on by dementia.

    “Ex-Chicago Cubs player battles dementia, criminal charges in Duluth”

    http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/article/id/213593/

    “Bob “Shorty” Raudman achieved something most men and boys just dream of — he made it to the major leagues of baseball as an outfielder and wore the red, white and blue colors of the Chicago Cubs in 1966 and 1967. …But Raudman, 69, was in an orange St. Louis County Jail jumpsuit Tuesday, living a nightmare as a victim of dementia. He was jailed for allegedly striking his wife on Sept. 24….A mental health evaluation was ordered after he was jailed. A psychologist determined that Raudman is incompetent to understand the charge against him and is unable to assist with his own defense. Under the rules of court, Judge Heather Sweetland dismissed the domestic assault charge and filed a petition that Raudman be civilly committed to a secure mental health facility. A hearing will be scheduled to determine the matter.”

    The ages of the defendants are: Thomas – 73, Roberts – 67, Crump – 68, and Adams 55.

    THREE OF THE DEFENDANTS ARE OVER AGE 67, A CITED RISK FACTOR FOR GETTING DEMENTIA.

    ALL FOUR DEFENDANTS ARE REPORTED TO BE IN POOR HEALTH, A CITED RISK FACTOR FOR GETTING DEMENTIA.

    (to be continued)

  2. Bruce says:

    ENTRAPMENT, as a legal term, is defined as: “The act of government agents or officials that induces a person to commit a crime he or she is not previously disposed to commit.”

    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/entrapment

    The events covered by this story occurred between March and November 2011. Recorded statements by the four defendants are presented in the downloads, along with statements by CHS1 and other individuals associated with the FBI.

    I did not observe any blatant examples of ‘entrapment’ exhibited during a fairly quick scanning of the documents. However, one certainly would NOT EXPECT TO FIND EXAMPLES OF ‘ENTRAPMENT’ EXHIBITED IN GOVERNMENT-SUPPLIED LEGAL DOCUMENTS OF THIS TYPE, for obvious reasons.

    I suspect that some of the ‘entrapment’ (if any) by CHS1 and others that occurred, did so BEFORE March 2011 during general meetings of the larger Georgia militia group, to which the ‘Covert Group’, consisting of Thomas, Roberts, Crump and Adams, was just a small part.

    Additional ‘entrapment’ (if any) could have occurred AFTER the ‘Covert Group’ was split off in March and identified as ‘fertile ground’ for the FBI to use in making their case. The submitted recordings could have easily and conveniently omitted any statements by CHS1 and others giving any hint of ‘entrapment’.

    There is no way, given just the documents available at this time, to really comment intelligently regarding the issue of ‘entrapment’. I SUSPECT that significant instances of ‘entrapment’ occurred, before and after March 2011, but have no way of proving this point.

    Of the four defendants, Thomas, and to a much lesser extent, Roberts, worried me the most. Some of their allegedly recorded statements lead me to conclude that, if allowed to proceed, their plans MIGHT have eventually resulted in the deaths of one or more government officials. Guns could certainly have been used. Explosive use would have been less likely, but probably not impossible. Who knows!

    I place Crump and Adams in an entirely different risk category, compared to Thomas and Roberts. Their stories involve the alleged preparation and use of ‘ricin’, an extremely potent biological/chemical toxin found in Castor Beans.

    The following two links provide information about ‘ricin’:

    http://chemistry.about.com/od/toxicchemicals/a/ricinpoisoning.htm

    http://www.thewednesdayreport.com/articles/research/weapons_of_mass_destruction-ricin.htm

    Ricin is currently considered by experts to be much more likely a substance which could be used in ASSASSINATION than as a WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION.

    Recorded statement by Crump: “What I’d like to do is make, uh, about 10 pounds of that (reference to ricin). Give you 2, me 2, Ray (ADAMS) 2, Dan (ROBERTS) 2, and somebody else 2. Put it out in different cit at the same time: Washington, DC, maybe Newark, NJ, Atlanta, GA, Jacksonville, FL, New Orleans. Dump that little (unintelligible) that’s all ya gotta do is lay it in the damn road, the cars are gonna spread it.”

    Recorded statement by Adams: “Well I’ve never done it (made ricin), but I have laboratory experience, and once you extract that stuff enough, just splashin it on your skin can kill ya.” According to CHS1, Adams also reportedly said “he needed a pound of lye and that he planned on making his own lye by leaching it from wood ashes to make his ricin.”

    — Leach lye from wood ashes? — Sure, it’s POSSIBLE to do that, but WHY go through the great expense of time and effort to do it when it is readily available on the internet? — but then, we learn from the Detention Order that “Mr. Adams had at his residence a printed recipe for ricin, which was apparently obtained from an internet source by someone else (the testimony showed that Mr. Adams did not have internet access)”

    http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/coldprocesssoapmaking/a/lyesources.htm

    I believe that Crump and Adams were much more likely to end up with lethal quantities of ‘ricin’ in THEIR OWN LUNCHTIME BEER AND PB& J SANDWICHES than they were to impact the health of any innocent citizens in the above listed cities.

    This is assuming that they did not BURN DOWN THEIR HOME LABORATORY with the highly flammable extraction solvent, acetone, before the first milligram of ‘ricin’ was ever produced.

    In considering Crump and Adams especially, I think it is appropriate to refer readers to the humorous film, “The Darwin Awards”, linked below. (“Honoring those who improve the species…by accidentally removing themselves from it!”) http://www.darwinawards.com/movie/

    AS A GENERAL SUMMARY OF MY FEELINGS REGARDING THIS STORY: I think it is likely that the FBI and one or more ‘low life criminal informants’ took unfair advantage of (entrapped?) some advanced-age, quite possibly dementia-inflicted individuals to accomplish several items from their own agenda. Regardless, I think two of the defendants, Thomas and Roberts, if not stopped in time, COULD possibly have killed or injured some government officials.

    The story conveniently brought to the attention of the public with its release, and will continue to bring to the public’s attention during further stages of prosecution of this case: (1) the government’s desire for extensive gun control and confiscation, and (2) the government’s desire to discredit Mike Vanderboegh, blogger for Sipsey Street Irregulars and author of the e-book, “Absolved” (Mr. Vanderboegh was very instrumental in exposing the shameful Fast & Furious scandal, first to the attention of the American Public and then to the attention of a senate investigative committee)

    The whole story is very sad and tragic, for a number of reasons!

  3. Bruce says:

    I neglected to mention the following ‘government agenda’ item that is important and very pertinent to the story under discussion. It’s very obvious, of course, but it still needs to be recorded here, to help insure completeness.

    The Obama administration wants to frequently remind everyone, falsely, that the PRIMARY terrorist threat to America is from DOMESTIC sources, such as militia groups, and not from any foreign source. Hence, they continually push the idea that there is no need to significantly restrict illegal immigration, which can easily hide foreign terrorists, from flooding across our largely unprotected Mexican and Canadian borders.

  4. Bruce,

    I thank you for posting your thoughts here regarding the Covert Group.

    I’m afraid that, like most other goodhearted, decent, respectable and law abiding citizen that have not had first hand or second hand experience with the USDOJ, Criminal Division, there is usually no way for you really know about the communist and Soviet style garbage disposal “justice” system that the US DOJ really is.

    You might ask what is wrong with getting rid of the garbage? Well, I think that Alexander Solzhenitsyn, author of the Gulag Archipelago, once said something like, “A garbage disposal system is not judged by its fairness but rather its ability to dispose of the garbage quickly and inexpensively”.

    Rather than for me to write perhaps more than 100 additional blog reports and probably alienate lots of the readers of this blog I am just going to recommend that you read the book:

    Three Felonies a Day, by Harvey A. Silvergate. Published in 2009.

    It is also my opinion that none of the four defendants suffer from mental illness or dementia. Although it could certainly be possible and I welcome the courts to seek a medical opinion.

    I think they, or at very least, Thomas, has had some sort of experience (first hand of second hand) with the US DOJ.

    Such an experience can lead goodhearted, respectable, honest and law-abiding citizens to murder and or mass/murder.

    I know that you are not aware of this but I am going to state here for the record that the federal criminal justice system has become, long ago, a crude conviction machine instead of an engine of truth and justice.

    Evidence? Witness testimony? Allow me to quote Havard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz, federal witness, federal informants and federal- witness “ARE TAUGHT NOT ONLY TO SING BUT TO COMPOSE”.

    Also did you know that many of the federal criminal “laws” which many innocent men have been convicted of breaking and violating were not even legislated by US Congress? See the “Code of Federal Regulation” which carry the same weight as any law criminal statute.

    Also read what US Attorney General Robert H. Jackson had to say about the federal prosecution and federal laws. Have you heard of Lavrenti Beria? He was the head the KGB in Stalin’s time. He was also famous for saying, “Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime”. US Attorney Robert H. Jackson warned that is exactly what sort of power that US Attorneys wheel.

    Do you know that US Attorneys can legally bribe their witnesses? They can offer immunity, new identities, EVEN CASH MONEY, a new life, and best of all escape from a 10,000 (ten thousand) month prison sentence?

    Do you what would happen to a defense attorney if offered any of those things to his witnesses? HE’D BE IN PRISON FOR A LONG TIME.

    I’m writing everything here in regular people talk so it might just all sound like ravings of an illiterate and upset mad man but I can assure you the same things that I am saying here have been stated by men in some of the highest ranking government and academic offices.

    Bruce, I’d like to write more here tonight but the power has went out and laptop battery is almost out.

    I’d like to state here that I am writing as fast as the word are coming into my mind so if any other my strange wording appears offensive in any manner or fashion I ask that you excuse me and also know with certainty that its far, very far, from my intentions to offend you or any other of great contemporary patriots!

    Good night.

  5. Bruce says:

    @ Lucas Daniel Smith:

    We are fortunate to have someone with your unique perspective concerning the USDOJ Criminal Division, that has taken the time to relate important information to us on this topic. Very frightening!

    You are certainly correct regarding my own lack of experience with the justice system. I have never spent any time in jail and I was only in a court of law once in my entire life, not counting jury duty or topics such as parking ticket disputes, of course.

    This occurred when I was a teenager, and it was the result of a real ‘crime’ I did in fact, commit. It was a bright sunny afternoon in our quiet neighborhood. My UNLICENSED, 1940 Ford, Red Convertible was sitting in the garage, having recently been ‘restored’ by yours truly, to at least a reasonably safe, drivable condition.

    The TEMPTATION WAS JUST TOO GREAT and I decided to take my ‘prized possession’ around the block in our neighborhood for a ‘test drive’. Very exciting! Unfortunately, Police Officer Shaw happened to be driving his patrol car through the neighborhood at the same time. My ‘joy ride’ was soon brought to a halt with the sound of his police siren.

    As a result, I had to appear at the small, local courthouse to pay the fine for driving an unlicensed vehicle. I recall that the judge was quite surprised when I paid the fine ($10 or so, as I recall) all in quarters and other small change, which I had received from the collections from households on my newspaper delivery route. I carefully counted it all out right there on his desk.

    I never returned thereafter to my criminal ways!

    However, I DID read Solzhenitsyn’s “Gulag Archipelago”, and some other related books, and I do understand and appreciate the seriousness and importance of your comments.

  6. @ Bruce:

    Thank you for sharing your personal account of your run-in with the law as a teenager with your unlicensed 1940 Ford red Convertible!

    It was an engaging pleasure to read and a great opportunity for all of us to learn a little more regarding the life of one of our great contemporary Patriots!

    I also want to make a few notes here, not aimed solely or particularly at Bruce but rather at all readers of my more recent blog reports:

    1. I often rail against the US DOJ (and even more so their “Criminal Division” whose duties include prosecuting all federal criminal cases). As I’m sure that most readers are aware, US DOJ is the acronym for he United States Department of Justice.

    2. In the state the you reside in you also have a state department of justice. In some states it goes by that name and in other it does not. For example:

    a. Iowa: Iowa Department of Justice.
    b. Wisconsin: Wisconsin Department of Justice.
    c. New York New York Department of Law.

    In some state I’m not entirely sure what the they call it. At any rate, the Office of the Attorney General in your particular state is the head of such a department, regardless of what they’ve named it. I think sometime it is just labeled as a “Division” under the Office of Attorney General.

    For the most part, or generally, I don’t have many gripes with most state DOJ (or whatever department/office that is in your state). I believe in a society free of all conspiracy law but, at least at the county level (District Court within the the state), most state prosecutors and state judges are NOT enthusiastic or dedicated to prosecuting, or hearing, conspiracy cases (although there may be exceptions which are contrary to what I’ve stated).

    For example, if you could survey all COUNTY JAIL INMATES(state inmates and federal inmates) across the USA and ask them what sort of charges they are accuses of, using three categories, 1. Real crimes that overtly occurred (an real act was alleged to have been committed), 2. Attempted crimes (such as attempted murder, attempted robbery) 3. Conspiracy cases, you’d probably find something like this:

    STATE INMATES: 95% real crimes, and the other 5% a mix of attempted crimes and conspiracy cases.

    FEDERAL INMATES: 99%-100% conspiracy cases. Its should be noted these conspiracy cases are usually coupled with other charges such as Mail Fraud, Wire Fraud, Attempting to Defraud the US GOV, False statements to federal officers, Interstate Commerce violations, ‘Obstructing the Mails’, and so on and et cetera.

    Furthermore, and for the record here, its not just the conspiracy laws that I have a gripe with. It’s the fact that nearly ALL federal laws are IMPOSSIBLY BROAD and VAGUE.

    It is no accident that the said laws are dangerously broad and wide, but rather it is by design. Right now as you read this comment you violating some federal law that you, nor any other intelligent law abiding citizen, is aware of. The US Attorneys at the US DOJ don’t know either, and they wont until they decide to find a crime that fits the man/woman.

    Are there federal inmates that have really and truly committed a real crime and perhaps are rightfully so convicted of said crimes? Of course. However, unlike state courts, this is usually not the norm. For one, the US DOJ picks and choices it cases, unlike the states (county district courts). For example, city police officers make arrests around the clock and haul these arrestees off to the local jail where they begin the process through the judicial system. Most of these arrestees, if not all, are accused of a ‘real’ crime (Im not implying that they guilty). Additionally, a majority of these crimes are ‘gutter crimes’ or at least what can be classified as “unsophisticated crimes”.

    On the other hand, the US DOJ hand picks which cases they will prosecute. Furthermore, they build their cases BEFORE they arrest you. Unlike in state courts where you are usually, or typically, arrested first and then the state attempts to build a case against you.

    Allow me to cite the words of former US Attorney General, Robert H. Jackson (serving as President Franklin Roosevelt‘s new US Attorney Gen.) Federal law books “ARE FILLED WITH A GREAT ASSORTMENT OF CRIMES” and a US Prosecutor “STANDS A FAIR CHANCE OF FINDING AT LEAST A TECHNICAL VIOLATION OF SOME ACT ON THE PART OF ALMOST ANYONE”. Moreover, US Prosecutors can easily succumb to temptation of first “PICKING THE MAN AND THEN SEARCHING FOR THE LAW BOOKS, OR PUTTING INVESTIGATORS TO WORK, TO PIN SOME OFFENSE ON HIM.”

    You might ask me, Lucas, if what you are saying is true then why don’t more people know about it?

    Well, for one, the main-stream-media rarely reports accurately on this. To the contrary, these usually heap praise on over zealous US Prosecutors and their victories convictions. You don’t buy that??? Then why do you same the exact same thing about the main-stream-media not reporting accurately on Barack Obama?

    Secondly, unless you personally, or a close family member or an extremely close friend, has been through the federal criminal courts (not the state courts) you will have absolutely zero understanding of how they work.

    As Bruce has explained in his recent comment, he has been through local courts (state, county, city) once when he was a teenager. I’m sure that it is fair to say that a large portion of honest, respectable and normally-law-abiding US Citizens have been through some sort of local court for at least some sort of minor law violation. However, such an experience (even a serious State offense and 25 year state sentence for a serious state charge) will provide absolutely zero insight into the workings of the federal criminal courts.

    Again I will state here for the record that the federal criminal courts cases do not typically consist of ‘gutter crimes’. A large majority are crimes that are pinned on good, honest, law-abiding citizen such a yourself.

    Lastly, you might ask me, Lucas, how is it that the workings of the State criminal courts (all 50 of them with perhaps the exception of Louisiana) so strikingly differ from that of the Federal criminal courts?

    One answer that I can supply you with is that the State laws are successors of English common law. The exception to that (maybe) might be Louisiana. Federal laws are NOT successors of English common law. Don’t believe me? Ask the US Supreme Court then:

    United States vs Hudson & Goodwin, 11 U.S. (7 Cranch) 32 (1812): Unlike state courts, federal courts cannot exercise common law criminal jurisdiction.

    Erie R. CO vs Thompkins, 304 U.S. 64 (1938): There is no general federal common law, even in civil matters.

    Whalen vs U.S., 445 U.S. 684, 698 (1980): The power to define crimes and punishment resides fully in Congress.

    Dixon vs United States, 126 S.Ct. 2437, 2439 (2006): Federal crimes are solely creatures of statue. (Citing Liparota vs United States 471 U.S. 419, 424 (1985))

    Seminole Tribe of Florida vs Florida, 517 U.S. 44, 139-140 (1995) (dissenting opinion of Justice Souter): “[T]he framers…recognized that the diverse development of the common law in the several States made a general federal reception impossible”

    Lastly, for tonight at least, anyone that believe that all federal conspiracy laws require at least some sort of overt act to be included you are dangerously in error. Once again, if you don’t believe me just ask the US Supreme Court (in a 9-0 vote!). As a matter of fact, you can even listen at the link below and hear Supreme Court Justice O’Connor announce the opinion in United States vs Shabani:

    http://www.oyez.org/cases/1990-1999/1994/1994_93_981

    In other words, if another criminal-defendant-witness (usually two of them) state the you had 1000 grams of the choice drug in your possession on such day of such month or such year, you are then guilty of that crime. Zero evidence.

    Looking up the definitions of conspiracy, entrapment and so one will not suffice when debating federal criminal statues. Reason being is that federal law is so intricate and complicated that there are hundreds of circumstances and special rules that override normal definitions.

    Bruce, I (as well, I am sure, as other readers too) again thank you for sharing some of your personal history here on he WOBIK blog. I found it to be a pleasure to read and also I have always had an interest in learning more about cars, engines and restoring both but for some reasons I have never been able to pursue to this hobby, at least not yet!

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